Saturday, March 18, 2006

Betty & Veronica

Over at Cocks & Dolls, Dolly has decided to prioritize her "Betty" side, after enjoying her "Veronica" nature. And it got me thinking about women, something I do a lot in my spare time these days.

I'm not sure if the Archie comix were as popular in Canada as they were in the U.S. but, to summarize their differences for the purpose of discussion, Veronica is the whore and Betty is the nice girl. Oh, and they're both hot, in their own way.

I posted the following as a comment to Dolly's post but I'm going to copy it here because I thought you guys might be interested as well. Its been edited slightly for clarity.

My thinking is: all females are both Betty and Veronica. She'll be Betty for awhile, and she will seek Veronica. She'll be Veronica for awhile, and Betty is on deck. And all of this is as it should be.

If you want to keep a female around you, never stop seducing her. Seduction is a lifelong project - don't think once you marry a female the courtship stops. Or, put another way, if you do stop the courtship after you're married, don't be surprised when she finds something better.

I think the #1 reason marriages fail is because couples "take each other for granted" - which means to me that at least one party falsely assumes that seduction is no longer a necessary component of the relationship.

I also suspect that the belief in some abstract concept called "love" is basically laziness. A slovenly and disrespectful approach to the Other, because it places faith in an imaginary force that will allow both parties to simply "be" and be happy.

Guess what? There's no such thing.

Personally, I feel the same way about "Love" that I do about many conceptions of "God". Afraid of death? Here, have a beautiful afterlife. Afraid of your own dark impulses? Here, have an imaginary Hell to keep you in line. Feeling unloved? Here, have a phony idol that will love you no matter how many times you fuck up.

Here's a thought, with apologies to Heidegger: Being is death; only Becoming is life. Where there is no struggle between the sexes, there is no dynamic, and the erotic loses its ability to manifest. Desire in action is the only means available by which we get the girl, seduce the man, change our lives, or change the world. This eternal, Natural project is the one for which we were designed - so my plan is to enjoy it in the little time we all have left.

21 Thoughts:

Blogger Rubik said...

Right on! ;) Good post!

Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:51:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...


Next time you use my theories make sure to cite me.

I have to disagree with you about being=death, becoming=life. You see in my case being=becoming and that throws a spanner into your whole theory. The trick is to accept your death with every breath you breath. Never be afraid of anything, least of all death. I have always felt sorry for friends who can't take chances. Nearly everything I did in my life that was worth anything was dangerous in one way or another. Live on the edge or don't live at all.


Sunday, March 19, 2006 8:08:00 PM  
Blogger iBegToDither said...

Pawl, perhaps what you see as the enduring need for seduction within relationships is just one special case of our foundational desire to be loved totally, in accordance with the Golden Rule.

It is impossible to take a lover for granted if you treat her how you want to be treated. Seduce as you would be seduced, intrigue as you want to be intrigued, challenge to be challenged in turn. Trim those pubes if it makes her happy. You earn one tit for that tat.

This is easily said yet possibly the ultimate challenge to live. Religions, secular teachings, and parental guidance all stress empathy and compassion, but in the daily life of lovers there is much to obscure the most honest efforts. Long-term relationships are further complicated by the changes brought by passing time. That’s why the life of the mind -- with its unique capacity to flex, compensate, reconcile, and grow even while our youthful sexiness diminishes -- is most important.

I think the lucky people are those that find someone to change with.

Sunday, March 19, 2006 9:44:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Interesting romantic notions, but I don't consider the Golden Rule one of my foundational beliefs. Its a layer of civilization that rests on top of our raw Nature - in other words, we're not born, like Rousseau believed, with an instinct for the Good. We're born with a cluster of emotional responses framed by circuitry that has evolved to serve our genetic self-interest. Anything more than that is social invention, taught via state, culture, and parental repression. No less important, but its more an obstacle to seduction rather than a foundation for it.

The seduction I'm talking about involves real eroticism, which means playing with irrational impulses. From this play, attraction can result, like lightning from charged atmosphere. You never know exactly where or how it will strike, only that enough potential is there, and that if you charge it correctly - Boom! Sparks, baby.

I'm going to come clean here and state openly that my feeling on these matters is also unapologetically sexist - however it is not, I believe, misogynist. In other words, I know that males and females share a material existence and a common mode of communication, but their biological drives and consequent use of language differ dramatically. Those natural differences acknowledged, I really enjoy female company (sometimes even when they're bitchy) and seek only to implement in my behavior what is required for me to maintain their companionship.

But men and women require uniquely different seduction strategies. Check out "The Game" link under Male Power and "The Rules" link under Female Power - these books are a good handbook for M->F seduction and F->M seduction, respectively. When females run Game on men, it doesn't work - and when males use Rules on females, it doesn't work.

If you'll allow a little earthiness on my part, I'd put it this way: "Seduce as I would want to be seduced", for me, would mean me teasing my own asshole, something I'm not particularly interested in.

Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:46:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Oh, and Demo, I'll cite your theories if you can prove you scooped the Presocratics by about two and a half millenia. Or do you Greeks just have an instinct for claiming individual credit for all your collective achievements? :)

Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:51:00 PM  
Blogger iBegToDither said...

Ah, yes, the Golden Tool. That was going to be lesson two.

Pawl, have you been reading ahead of your fellow students?

Until next time, class, the Golden Rule will continue to be both salvation and damnation for most of us -- us meek relationship simpletons.

Meanwhile, Pawl has agreed to prepare a ten-word book report on The Game. And he promised not to use big words like "snakeoil."

Monday, March 20, 2006 7:58:00 AM  
Blogger pawlr said...

No need to suspect me of hucksterism or seminar posturing, my friend - I gave up on cult-building, after I lost interest in the hypnotic imagery of greatest con of all - the sky-cult of Christianity.

What works for me is not for everyone. I just call 'em like I see 'em.

And I certainly don't remember accepting any assignments, especially not a book report.

Incidentally, the last one I wrote was on "Catcher in the Rye" - I got a "C" from Sister Agnes Mary because she had a "convent"ional prude's reaction to the subject matter. But that's another story.

Monday, March 20, 2006 12:03:00 PM  
Blogger Palmer said...

is veronica really a ho?

she does seem like she'd be more wild in the sack. betty seems like she could get by on her looks.

side note: betty's hotter than wilma. daphne's hot, but velma might be a hellcat (and she might invite some friends). Jane Jetson's foxy. Dunno how I feel about Judy Jetson. Might need to wait a couple years for her.

Enough of that...

do males and females seduce in the same ways? the use of the word "seduction" implies some nefarious motive, doesn't it? is the goal of the male seducer to please the woman, to bed her, or to use her up and move on to the next conquest? seems like it connotes getting someone to do something they wouldn't do otherwise, maybe something they know is wrong.

if you're aiming for a series of sexual conquests, you're in for a long, intermittently gratifying, and ultimately lonely ride. if you want to make the magic happen over the years with the same woman, role-playing, seducing, you-name-it make sense.

it also comes down to the nature of the connection.

and the flat-out rejection of god and love is a little too Nietzchean and glib for me. Seems like there's something going on on both fronts, although the current prevailing cultural understanding may be limiting.

good food for thought.

Monday, March 20, 2006 2:52:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Just to clarify, yeah "seduction" can just as easily mean "charm". In other words, its the selective and structured concealment or revelation of truths, hiding intentions until a certain moment, or making them clear by subcommunication.

Seduction doesn't apply just to one-night stands, by any means. Both married couples and people in LTRs use seduction techniques to spice up their sex lives. Running on autopilot is a sure way to "peter out" for sure.

I prefer Velma over both Betty & Vernonica because she seems like the whole package - brainy, hot, assertive, nice sense of style.

Monday, March 20, 2006 3:07:00 PM  
Blogger iBegToDither said...

You passed my shit test, Pawl. You're ever open to a little impromptu thrust and parry. I guess you do have game.

Let me try to clarify that my initial comment, poorly rendered, I guess, was in *agreement* with your post about seduction.

I often look for universals. The need for seduction doesn't seem to be quite that fundamental. It may be *characteristic* and widespread, but I don't feel that it is foundational. So I was trying to incorporate seduction into a more encompassing structure.

It sounds like you're saying that the Golden Rule is a "civilizing" concept (for better or worse) imposed on top of other more basic, even "hard-wired," forces such as the desire to be seduced.

That may be so, but I still think that you want to be treated by your ideal mate in a certain way, and that you'll treat her in a way that encourages that treatment of you -- which is a reformulation of the Golden Rule. You won't necessarily seduce each other with the exact same mannerisms (Rules vs. Game) but you both want to be seduced somehow and will act to encourage that.

Lifelong seduction is critical, which is why I stressed loving your lover's mind and being able to change together. Change, the ability to change, and the anticipation of change, are terribly seductive to me.

I do hope you find someone who will tell jokes to your butthole.

Monday, March 20, 2006 4:29:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Its indeed a powerful woman that can make my ass chuckle. I would welcome that kind of motivation, that's for sure.

Monday, March 20, 2006 5:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello again...seduction:It pushes us up against who we think we are, against what we want from the world, against our need to
both connect with another, and travel our path's with absolute
independence and aloneness. Who wants a relationship that simply
our id?

Monday, March 20, 2006 6:45:00 PM  
Blogger Zeppellina said...


Well, it sure has been a while since I last visited........this blog has really changed...!!!

I`m still in shock....I`ll be back later....!!!

Monday, March 20, 2006 7:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is pretty interesting ah? P may let me motivate him a little.

Monday, March 20, 2006 7:47:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Zep - I was wondering where you'd been! Welcome back to our redecorated environs. Do you have your site we can link to? Post the URL here and we'll add it.

Monday, March 20, 2006 11:30:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...


How keen of you to recognize my atavistic superiority. Heraclitus in the flesh am I. Yoda like man I speak.

Seriously, adventure is what it's all about. The daily grind sucks ass. You have to constantly challenge yourself or you die inside.


Tuesday, March 21, 2006 12:25:00 AM  
Blogger pawlr said...

You sound like some sort of.. Ubermensch. A tower of iron will. Dick made spirit.

But who is this "Rossi"? I know no "Rossi". Wait, wasn't he in the World Cup in '82? Besides scoring the most, he was also awarded the red card for breaking rules. Menstrual violations against the formal laws of football . . .

Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:34:00 AM  
Blogger Kyahgirl said...

I guess I'm going to have to read those two books before I can comment.
I was going to make a post entitled 'Fuck The Rules' but that wouldn't be fair. Must do my research.

Looks like some interesting male bonding is going on a cyberpoles. :-)

Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:07:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Sometimes you can't tell where the jousting ends and the bonding begins.

Friday, March 24, 2006 12:32:00 PM  
Blogger Psyneh said...

lol betty & veronica.. that reminded me of myself but I call it Dr Jeykell & Mr Hyde.. guess we should call it skitzo :D

Wednesday, March 29, 2006 7:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I detect a Nietzschean tone in your postings, a frustration with this straitjacketing atmosphere of political correctness that dictates equality between men and women in the bedroom... and a desire to return to "Nature," to a Dionysian celebration of a primal male sexuality....The problem is, this "culture" that you assume is antagonistic to "nature" is really in cahoots with it, the latter being the brainchild of the former (Culture invents biological notions of the "naturally" dominant, predatory male, as well as objectifying notions of women as Betty and Veronica types). That is, all of our political and social institutions already revolve around the phallus, extolling its power on a subliminal level. Corporate and political America (can we even separate the two?) is a jerk circle, a circle of jerks who engage in a sanitized form of S & M every day and seduce the masses through signs of dead power. Its pornography kills eroticism, by leaving nothing to the imagination, by making it all about anatomy. Think about it: few people would describe a stay on a nude beach as an erotic experience.

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:03:00 AM  

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