Saturday, December 03, 2005

East Timor Massacres: Ford, Carter complicit

Declassification is a bitch - let this be a lesson for anyone who continues to believe the official statements of the U.S. government.

Read it and weep.

11 Thoughts:

Blogger Demotiki said...

Doug,

These memos just confirm what I have known for years. The US role was widely known by experts in Southeast Asian politics at the time.

If you really want to be incensed, read into the US involvement in

Suharto’s rise to power. There is a widespread belief that the CIA provided information and organization that aided Suharto in killing his political opponents. Suharto was a thorough man, and took few chances. His aggressive campaign of political consolidation cost the lives of 500,000 Indonesians and ended a democratically elected government. Believe me, the people in Indonesia haven’t forgotten our involvement in the region. After all, they have heard about Vietnam and Cambodia too.

Demo

Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:02:00 AM  
Blogger Palmer said...

Complicit through acts of omission or commission?

Realpolitik of the '70s and '80s is a far cry from where we are today. I wonder if we have the capacity to conduct covert operations these days. Seems like we're brutish, simple, and overextended. Plus we've worn out our welcome and we're more likely to be watched even by our allies.

Makes me want to play some poker.

Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:13:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Paul posted this; can't take credit.

Yep, Indonesia is another sad chapter.

Palmer: Ben T. and Christian F. were discussing a game... :)

Sunday, December 04, 2005 9:51:00 AM  
Blogger pawlr said...

I'm in - also Hank is back in town and talking about hosting one.

Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:41:00 PM  
Blogger Palmer said...

Sweet! Poker-wise.

Depressing, of course, East Timor-wise.

Although at least this info gets declassified at some point. What's the story with that? When and how does this kind of info/docs get released for public consumption.

I'm in on any cards in NYC area. Could also do a Foxwoods rendez-vous at some point (that's near Doug and Andrew, after all).

Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:24:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

Mike, Pawl, et al.

I am jonesin' for cards in a big way. Too bad because I have exams coming up and will not be free until the 22nd of December. I think I go back to school in the first week of January. After that, however, I would be up for playing any Thursday, Friday or Saturday night. Keep me in the loop - unless you are too scared to play Andy the Greek.

Sunday, December 04, 2005 5:42:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Palmer: probably a FOIA request by some researcher or human-rights org.

Re: poker -- Foxwoods would be hilarious! I've been there with Donna's family.

Also: we have a real poker table in the rec room (with a pool table, but ya gotta bring cues) in our mill-apartment/condo complex here, and we could sleep a few. :)

Monday, December 05, 2005 9:21:00 AM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

Doug,

I would be down for that, but I doubt your building managers would be pleased if the poker crowd showed up for an all night event. We normally get rather loud and our language isn't always proper. Alcohol is an important component as well.

Demo

Monday, December 05, 2005 2:14:00 PM  
Blogger GodlessMom said...

Poker players!!! Do you guys play online?

Monday, December 05, 2005 2:59:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

Godlessmom,

No, we used to play a weekly game in NYC a few years back. We had the felt, the clay chips, the drunken players, the whole 9 yards. It was fun while it lasted. Sadly, I think Bush ended it, some of the players were Republicans. Even though they helped to finance the game through their careless play, we found it hard to socialize with proponents of torture. Of course, there were other reasons, me moving 200 miles away for example.

Demo

Tuesday, December 06, 2005 9:47:00 AM  
Blogger GodlessMom said...

I hate it when politics gets in the way of a good poker game!

Tuesday, December 06, 2005 10:06:00 AM  

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