Wednesday, October 19, 2005

Michael Ledeen, Fitz, and the Niger Forgeries

Treat with skepticism, but still interesting stuff. Watchers of the BBC's three part "Power of Nightmares" series may remember Ledeen as one of the infamous Straussian Neo-cons, in bed with Allen Bloom, Bill Kristol, Wolfy, etc. Currently, Ledeen is the prime suspect (among people who make it a point to care) of being the author of the Niger Uranium "16 words" Forgeries. If Fitz has widened the investigation to include blowing the top off the whole WMD hype story, this country is in for one hell of a wakeup call.

17 Thoughts:

Blogger pawlr said...

Raw Story has it that David Wurmser is the second aide to have flipped after Hannah. Find him on this list of neocons.

"..Now, those close to the investigation* say that a second Cheney aide, David Wurmser, has agreed to provide the prosecution with evidence that the leak was a coordinated effort by Cheney’s office to discredit the agent's husband. Her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, was one of the most vocal critics of the Iraq war."

* grains of salt recommended

Hey, wasn't Wurmser the nerdiest of the nerds on Revenge of the Nerds I ?? Someone help me out here :)

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:30:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Its a fucking Rabbit Hole.. Apparently Wurmsie was also questioned in the AIPAC scandal:

(From WaPo, 9/4/04) Investigators have specifically asked about a group of neoconservatives involved in defense issues, including Feith, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, Iraq and Iran specialist Harold Rhode and others at the Pentagon. FBI agents also have asked current and former officials about Richard Perle of the defense board and David Wurmser, an Iran specialist and principal deputy assistant for national security affairs in Cheney's office, according to sources familiar with or involved in the case.

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 2:34:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...


I had to smile at " bed with Allan Bloom..." -- surely a slip of the keyboard?

One reason I can't get too much into Bellow is his farting around with the Chicago neocon crowd. I do like his earlier stuff, though, and Augie March is on the list...

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:19:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

Sorry Allen, meant Allan - to house them all it better be a big bed, too! or howabout a phone booth, or even better, a prison...

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:42:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

The link to the AIPAC scandal doesn't surprise me. Iraq was clearly never a threat to the US, but it was something of a threat to Israel. It should come as no surprise that Jewish-American Zionists like Wolfowitz and Perle were trying leverage some advantage for Israel. After all, it wouldn't be the first time.

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:03:00 PM  
Blogger pawlr said...

More on Wurmser's connections.

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:59:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Demo, would it come as any surprise to you that not all the neocons in and allied with the administration are Jewish-American Zionists?

Donald Rumsfeld
Condoleeza Rice
Dick Cheney
Scooter Libby
John Bolton

...and that's just off the top of my head.

And would it come as a shock to you that fundamentalist Christians, the ones that have been allied with the neocons are none of them Jewish?

I'm not defending Jewish-American neocons, but your simply casting your net too narrowly; there's plenty of blame to go around -- and to go around one particular subset of one ethnic group.

No, I'm not defending them; I'm simply constantly amazed at your tunnel vision on this.

Meanwhile, back on the farm, I'm still wondering whether any indictments will be handed down. It came out today that, as I had suspected, either Fitz will hand down indictments or not -- but no report will be forthcoming, as would have been required under the now-deceased independent counsel law.

So, we shall see.

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 10:27:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Furthermore, on what do you base your belief that the neocons are driven primarily by their perception of Israeli interest? I think they care about America's power first; Israel is a Britain-like client state for our force projection.

I also don't think the neocons actually believed that Iraq was a threat -- to anyone. Wolfowitz basically admitted that in his famous Vanity Fair boast -- nuclear terrorism was "bureaucratically acceptable" -- i.e., a Straussian smokescreen. This is about empire-building, and Israel seems to be a client state primarily -- like Iberia or Cisalpine Gaul.

I'm sure you'll disagree, so feel free not to take time from law school to respond. (Not sarcasm!)

Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:15:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...


Back me up on this.


You completely mischaracterized what I said. I didn't say that "Jews" were the cause of the Iraq war. Just so that you understand, this is what I believe. I believe that Cheney & Co. wanted the war for their own selfish economic gain, to induce war based public support for their pathetic regime, and to improve their standing with domestic political players - namely big oil. September 11 gave Cheney & Co. the opportunity to move.

The role of Jewish-American-Zionists was to support this effort through a smear campaign directed at ethnic minorities and foreign regimes out of favor with Israel. Meanwhile they were able to accomplish several of the publically stated goals of the Israeli government and outspoken right-wing Jewish Americans who support the Sharon government.

Many of these same folk are within the neocon movement so it wasn't difficult to push their agenda. Cheney & Co. were receptive because of the unique ability of these folk to help him get what he wanted, namely a war with Iraq.

If you want to learn more about the AIPAC connection, check out who Wurmser is. He is married to an Israeli and is being questioned in connection with WHIG and with the AIPAC scandal.

I am not casting a "narrow net," you are by refusing to fully acknoledge the role that the pro-Israel lobby and right-wing Zonists play in promoting our disasterous foreign policies in the Middle East.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger Demotiki said...


By the way, you mention that

Donald Rumsfeld
Condoleeza Rice
Dick Cheney
Scooter Libby
John Bolton

were non-jews responsible for this policy. I am not at all sure that Irvin Libby isn't Jewish, it doesn't really matter, he's a rabid Zionist. Bolton ran a pro-Isreal think tank, and every other person you mention has aggressively argued pro-Israeli possitions every chance they have been given. This administration is the most anti-Palestinian pro-Israeli government our country has ever seen. Chalking it up to Christian Righties just doesn't pass the laugh test.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:04:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

How about this factoid to help understand Libby's views on Israel, he was the attorney for convicted felon and Israeli spy Mark Rich.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:05:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I don't chalk it all up to Christian fundys. They are a huge reservoir of political support, as they are awaiting Armageddon, happily.

I do chalk it up to neocons, some of whom are Jewish, some of whom aren't. I'm not sure how "Zionist" any of them are, as their key goal is world domination under the guise of "spreading democracy" -- maybe they actually believe that; who can tell, given that their intellectual god, Strauss, recommended lying to the people (which of course is itself anti-democratic). "Zionism," whatever that may mean, is totally subordinate to the projection of American power. I think that's clear.

I didn't say you were blaming it all on all Jews. I know all about AIPAC; they suck ass. What I'm saying is, you're casting a net that's far too narrow, and assuming a primary causation (protecting Israel, even at the expense of the US) that I simply don't think is accurate, based on what I know about the neocon movement. Like I said, Israel is the client state primarily -- the "beacon of democracy" in the Middle East. And that's the primary reason for supporting them. A secondary reason probably is a combination of American and Israeli Likudniks using the neocons as much as the neocons used their support; no doubt.

Your restatement is closer to what I think; I think you were probably writing "blog shorthand," which we all do.

In any event, I'm awaiting all of these criminals to be frogmarched out of Washington and into prison. I really hope so.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:12:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

Just for the record, Libby is Jewish.

From the Jewish American Library

You can see a number of other Jewish-American Zionists on this list and come to your own conclusions. If you look at the evidence in a rational non-defensive way, you will realize that you know many of the names on this list from present and former scandals, and that most of them are clearly neocons and Zionists.

Ari Fleischer (2001-2003) White House Press Secretary
Josh Bolten Deputy Chief of Staff
Ken Melman White House Political Director
David Frum (2001-2002) Speechwriter
Brad Blakeman White House Director of Scheduling
Dov Zakheim (2001-2004) Undersecretary of Defense (Controller)
Paul Wolfowitz Deputy Secretary of Defense
I. Lewis Libby Chief of Staff to the Vice President
Adam Goldman (2001-2003) White House Liaison to the Jewish Community
Tevi Troy (2003-2004) White House Liaison to the Jewish Community
Noam Neusner (2004-) White House Liaison to the Jewish Community
Chris Gersten Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families at HHS
Elliott Abrams Director of the National Security Council's Office for Democracy, Human Rights and International Operations
Mark D. Weinberg Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs
Douglas Feith (2001- ) Under Secretary of Defense for Policy
Michael Chertoff Head of the Justice Department's criminal division
Daniel Kurtzer Ambassador to Israel
Cliff Sobel Ambassador to the Netherlands
Stuart Bernstein Ambassador to Denmark
Nancy Brinker Ambassador to Hungary
Frank Lavin Ambassador to Singapore
Ron Weiser Ambassador to Slovakia
Mel Sembler Ambassador to Italy
Martin Silverstein Ambassador to Uruguay
Jay Lefkowitz (2001-2004) Deputy Assistant to the President and Director of the Domestic Policy Council
Blake Gottesman President's personal aide
John Miller Director, State Departement Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:12:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...


By the way, John Bolton is Jewish but converted to Christianity, as did Robert Novak. Not that it matters, but you listed him as someone who wasn't a pro-Israel Jewish American.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:16:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

I know that when one says "I'm not being defensive" that's taken as further evidence of defensiveness, but I mean it slightly differently: I do not rate my Jewishness very high in my identity, as you know, so I feel no need to defend "co-religionists" -- whether here or in Israel. I judge people on actions. To the degree that those actions are anti-progressive, I am against them, to say it a bit simplistically.

That you assume I'm being defensive because I am Jewish is simply wrong, and I wish you'd accept that.

Didn't know Libby was Jewish, but, as you say, and as I agree, it don't matter much.

Could you compile a list of non-Jewish neoconservatives in the administration, too? See -- that's kinda what I mean by tunnel vision. Here are some very powerful people in foreign policy over the past five years -- and take a listen to Col. Wilkerson's speech, too; it's germane to my point here:

George W. Bush, President
Karl Rove, The President's Brain
Dick Cheney, The Real President
Condoleeza Rice, NSA; SecState
George Tenet, CIA
Porter Goss, CIA
John Bolton, Ambassador to UN (you know the rest)
Colin Powell, fmr SecState (not a neocon, but not too effective in fighting them; a woos, I mean)
John Negroponte, DNI

Now that's off the top of my head. I should think that the collective influence of the above would be pretty large.

I do agree that the religious background doesn't really matter; it's the results of what they do that matters. Actions.

In any event, I think spending time watching Wilkerson would be of better use -- I'm listening as I type now.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:25:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...


I'll check it out when I get home. . . there's so much news and so little time!!!!


Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:46:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Cool -- this one is definitely worth losing a couple hours' sleep over.

Btw, I don't underestimate, much less ignore, the role of what I'd call American and Israeli Likudniks. I just don't think it's the central, primary cause.

Thursday, October 20, 2005 12:49:00 PM  

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