Thursday, July 21, 2005

Bombs in London

Caught a bit of Tony Blair extolling the wonders of Australia at his press conference this morning. He and the Aussie took it as an opportunity to exchange goo-goo eyes for 20 minutes. The more I see blair the more he look slike a snake-oil salesman.

Seems like the cross-hairs are on London, but it makes you think before hopping on the E train.

So long as the terrorists stay away from taxis...cabs are scary enough.

19 Thoughts:

Blogger Doug said...

Yeah, I think you nailed Blair -- what a zero.

On London: I've read (but haven't seen the poll itself) that 70-ish% of UK folks see the connection between Iraq and these bombings. Bodes ill for Blair -- and for Labor.

The mayor of London came right out and said it, too.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:30:00 PM  
Blogger A.T. said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:37:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Hey, Allen!

You might want to wade through the 45 comments on Lakoff below...might be worth it to get your response.

The Liberal Democrats and many Tories were against the Iraq adventure (and many in Labor, too, some of whom were thrown out).

Anyway, the party in power usually pays for such events, especially if the people tie it to that party's policies. Which I think is justified here.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:50:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Allen: we have a new blogiac here: Palmer, who is yet another voice on the spectrum (perhaps off the spectrum).

Palmer: Allen's one of our most loyal opponents -- he has a blog called Thornblog that's linked on ours. I think it's fair to call him a Christian conservative; feel free to self-define, Allen!

Best, Dug

Thursday, July 21, 2005 1:09:00 PM  
Blogger A.T. said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:23:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

LOL. Yeah, you can pass on the "inside baseball" debate on Lakoff. Understandable.

On Labor/Tory/Lib in England and how this will all play out with the bombings and Iraq, I haven't really read all that much. So I might be wrong; anyway, it's an interesting thing for both (all) of us to pursue.

Best, Dug

Thursday, July 21, 2005 2:30:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

The lesson of these "fail?" attacks is that even a "failed" attack can cause massive economic disruption. It is impossible to stop these sorts of attacks completely - or lower them to an acceptable level. The only obvious solution is the same one the government seized upon during the Cold War - decentralization of necessary assets. Look for more suburban developments and gated communities. Just like during the plague, people will desert cities if things get too bad too quickly. Wait and see I guess. . .

Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:16:00 PM  
Blogger Zeppellina said...

Londoners are a pretty hard bunch, demotiki, they didn`t leave London during the many IRA bombing campaigns.
The thing that does worry us in the UK the most is the possibility of break-ups in the community here.
Doug is right, most people here see a link beween Iraq, Afghanistan, and the bombings. I confess, I thought that it would have been a higher figure than 70%.
There is no doubt that the younger people in the muslim community are extremely angry. If the situation is not handled very carefully, we could have big problems here.
In terms of Labour being in trouble, quite possibly...there is a large Asian vote in the UK, and the bulk of it traditionally goes to the Labour Party. If they lose favour with the young Asian voters, they will lose valuable votes.
The Asian youth see Blair as being responsible for the whole Iraq mess.
I will be surprised if Labour get back in again anyway, they are fiddling figures in the NHS, and the NHS is a major issue as things are getting so bad.
Blair resembles a WW2 spiv...lots of offers for lots of people, but in the end, no-one gets what they really wanted, and everyone gets ripped off.
The UK voting figures are very bad, and it is nothing to do with apathy, as the politians claim. People are just getting fed up being lied to.
The bad news is, there is no effective or viable alternative to Labour at the moment, which is really one of the big reasons as to why they got back in.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 5:52:00 PM  
Blogger Zeppellina said...

Oh, quick note..anyone in any doubt that the young muslim community are angry about Afghanistan, Iraq, and Blair, should watch some of the many undercover documentaries and news interviews screened in the UK in the last year.

Thursday, July 21, 2005 6:15:00 PM  
Blogger Doug said...

Thanks, Zeppellina!

Where could we find those documentaries? Do you have any titles; we have some torrent-wise folks here...maybe they're online?

Nice to see you over here!


Thursday, July 21, 2005 6:35:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...


I know how strong the British reserve can be. I was speaking more about the businesses in London. New Yorkers are tough too, but after 9/11, there were a lot of office towers going up in New Jersey. The financial sector in particular can't afford frequent business disruptions.

Also, we are just starting to see the beginning of urban terror. Of course it's been around for a long time, but never on the scale of 9/11. I think that if something the size of the Madrid bombings took place every few months, it would be hard to imagine the population of London being uneffected.

Two rather important factors are still undetermined. First, will enough people want to blow up the trains? Second, will the security forces not be able to stop them? I don't know the answers to these questions - nobody does.

Friday, July 22, 2005 11:19:00 AM  
Blogger Zeppellina said...

Hi guys!
I know what you mean demotiki, in that the campaign has only just begun.
It may well be a bit more regular than the IRA bombings, at least, that is what we are all expecting.
But, we are expecting worse than that. It will only be a matter of time before other cities are targeted, we have a large asian community in the UK, and there is no doubt that there are angry young men out there.
In Glasgow, just over a year or so ago, there was a horrendous incident where a group of young Asian men, angry at the invasion of Iraq, and what they saw as attacks on Muslims around the world, decided to grab a young white Glaswegian as an act of revenge.
They piled into 2 cars, and drove around until they came across 2 boys.
One got away in the struggle, but the 13 year old boy unfortunately did not.
They badly beat him, took him out to wasteground on the East end of the City, tortured him, cut off his genitals, then poured petrol over him, and burnt him alive.
His body was found the next day.
It was very tense, and all of Glasgow held its breath.
One person was tried and sentenced for Racially motivated murder. There are 3 people awaiting extradition from Pakistan to face charges.
In Oldham, the National Front (Nazis)
have council seats as elected members. This is bad. One area of the community there is now so divided, that they have built a wall across the middle of the road to seperate the two communities.
There are problems here which need careful handling, if we are to avoid splitting communities.
I know what you mean about businesses etc, if you have ever been to Belfast,you will know that getting insurance in certain areas was nigh on impossible. This would be a problem.
I noticed, with interest, that my renewal form for my business insurance no longer covers acts of terrorism. I actually never realised that it did, until I read the attached note on this years renewal form!
This suggests to me that we are expecting problems as a regular occurance, and, as I am in Scotland, they are covering all options.
I think that we will see other cities hit. There are plenty of cities where security is not as tight as London.
There are obvious soft targets.
London isn`t the only City with an underground, just for starters.
Glasgow, for example, has one, and is seriously overcrowded at certain times of the day, and at weekends.
Doug..unfortunately can`t think of any titles, but plenty of BBC stuff for sure. Panorama did one lately...also Channel 4 has done some..there was a very revealing BBC radio program where an undercover journalist visited the `unofficial mosques` set up by hardliners to lure the young away from the official city mosques of their parents.
They believed their parents to be not Islamic enough, and bad Muslims.
I think that there is another batch of programs about to be shown, I saw a trailer of a young female Muslim journalist doing interviews with kids on the street discussing how they feel about things.
I will watch out for titles, stations and times for you. I imagine that the BBC stuff should be on-line.
I will drop in again, this is a good site, and I have it bookmarked now!
Sorry this comment is so long, guys!!

Saturday, July 23, 2005 1:43:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Oh, long comments are legion on this blog! Say whatever you like for as long as you like.

I have to say I was totally ignorant of the depth of the Islamic-non-Islamic trouble in the UK...that is troubling.

We've got to have some kind of national (for each nation)/international forum for speaking about religious differences. Can't hurt. This is very worrying -- the long TLS article I posted on Islamic politics gives basis for both optimism and pessimism. Apparently, a long history of Islamic fundamentalism has been brewing, and it looks like the liberal Muslims have been losing, badly. But there are liberal Muslims, and plenty of them.

Interesting that that wing has had the rug pulled out from under it by Western imperialist behavior: Naguib Mafouz's Cairo Trilogy demonstrates that pretty well; ironically (actually, there's no irony!), he was stabbed in 1994 by a Muslim-Brotherhood-type person....

We need an anti-fundamentalist front, made up of folks from all religions and cultures. Which is one reason I think I'm going to the Council for Secular Humanism's 25th anniversary meeting in Buffalo, NY at the end of October...

Saturday, July 23, 2005 9:26:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Nice blog(s), Zeppellina! Do you sketch first, then scan it and treat it via computer?

Cyberpols--check out her blogs; methinks you'll like.

Saturday, July 23, 2005 9:30:00 AM  
Blogger Doug said...

Zeppellina: Put your main blog on our blogroll, under Music, Art, Science, and Culture.

Does your nickname stem from a liking for Led Zeppelin, by any chance?

Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:12:00 AM  
Blogger Zeppellina said...

Hi doug, just dropped in quickly.
There is a BBC2 documentary called
"The New AL Qaeda" at 9pm on Monday 25th.
It`s apparently a year long investigation into the group, and why `we were always in the firing line`

Glad you like my artwork...only one on the site, wrapped..bubbles had any computer work.
All the rest are hand done, with good old fashioned art materials!
Not goood enough with a computer, I`m afraid!
Would love to add my site to your links...will have to work out how to do it!!!!
If I see any more trails for documentaries soon, there will be plenty, I will let you know!

Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:22:00 PM  
Blogger Zeppellina said...

yes, I grew up listening to Led Zeppellin, among others, but that wasn`t really the reason.

I love Zeppellins, Airships.
Like the Graaf Zeppellin...they are still under construction.
Both the US and Japan are soon to launch "Stratosphere airships".
The Japanese one is apparently to monitor the enviromental changes happening through global warming, and the US airship is military.
It will be fitted with missile detection and guidance equipment.
If someone launches a missile against the US, the airship up in the stratoshere detects it, and guides US missiles to shoot it down.
The Stratosphere ships have no internal framework, so are airships, and not Zeppellins...but they are all big airships!
The US military have been big funders of airship design for many years now.
The Zeppellin company have been working on designs for heavy freight transporter airships.
Travel of the future, at least I hope so...environmentally friendly,no pollution from them, extremely sturdy, and the design is so high-tec now.
Wonderful and beautiful things!!
see you soon!

Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:33:00 PM  
Blogger Demotiki said...

Doug, Zep,

I got that Panorama documentary off of Bittorrent. I'll watch it with Doug some time.

There are bunch of great documentaries on BBC. Everytime I watch one of them I realized how backward our country has become. It's like we can't address anything real. Everything has to be fake and Jesused up. It's enough to make you vomit. What happened to the great American cynics. We need a new Mark Twain.

Monday, July 25, 2005 10:21:00 PM  
Blogger Zeppellina said...

demokiti, it is a 3 part documentary, first part was interesting...couple of things surprised me, will watch the next 2 in the series.
Also covered a bit about US intelligence.
They said at the end of it that you could get more info from

Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:10:00 PM  

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